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Post by levendara on Mar 30, 2012 7:33:37 GMT 10
The ottomans respected all religions!!! They weren't afraid of orthodoxy. The ottomans controlled orthodox and catholic Christians, Jews, animists, shamans, Druze, zoroastrians, and all lived fine. Stop with the vlakies Im sorry but this is the biggest bunch of bullshit Ive ever read here 1/3 of Greek children born during the Ottoman occupation was taken by the Turks and indoctrinated to hate Greeks and to kill as many Greeks as possible. Stamata with the Ottomans were tolerant and great leaders of their empire. THEY WERE FUCKING DOGS THEN AND THEY STILL ARE TODAY FULLSTOP |
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Post by sydcro57 on Mar 30, 2012 7:33:54 GMT 10
And historical revisionism has always occured when the church is involved... whether it's the Catholic or Greek Orthodox church Either way... forza the Holy See!!  |
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Post by mini on Mar 30, 2012 7:35:34 GMT 10
Again that's another lie that 1/3rd of Greek children taken by Ottomans. Another fabrication by the church
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Post by anothermp on Mar 30, 2012 7:39:51 GMT 10
So freemasons saved Greece lol. Stop wanting to believe it and accept rue fact that the church played an integral role in sustaining Greek culture.and identity throughout the Turkocracy. Doesn't mean they are perfect, doesn't mean they're everybody's cup of tea, just means. They were central actors
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Post by levendara on Mar 30, 2012 7:42:50 GMT 10
And historical revisionism has always occured when the church is involved... whether it's the Catholic or Greek Orthodox church Either way... forza the Holy See!! The Vatican is one of the most corrupt organisations in the world, they have blood on their hands from countless regions around the world |
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Post by levendara on Mar 30, 2012 7:44:56 GMT 10
Again that's another lie that 1/3rd of Greek children taken by Ottomans. Another fabrication by the church 1 in 5 not 1 in 3 These practices are called the "tribute of children" (devshirmeh) (in Greek ðáéäïìÜæùìá paidomazoma, meaning "child gathering"), whereby every Christian community was required to give one son in five to be raised as a Muslim and enrolled in the corps of Janissaries, elite units of the Ottoman army. |
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Post by sydcro57 on Mar 30, 2012 7:51:08 GMT 10
And historical revisionism has always occured when the church is involved... whether it's the Catholic or Greek Orthodox church Either way... forza the Holy See!! The Vatican is one of the most corrupt organisations in the world, they have blood on their hands from countless regions around the world And? |
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Post by mini on Mar 30, 2012 8:03:30 GMT 10
So freemasons saved Greece lol. Pick up a history book. Who do you think the Filiks Eteria were? Again that's another lie that 1/3rd of Greek children taken by Ottomans. Another fabrication by the church 1 in 5 not 1 in 3 These practices are called the "tribute of children" (devshirmeh) (in Greek ðáéäïìÜæùìá paidomazoma, meaning "child gathering"), whereby every Christian community was required to give one son in five to be raised as a Muslim and enrolled in the corps of Janissaries, elite units of the Ottoman army. 1 in 5? Show me a credible source giving that figure? |
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Post by aek210 on Mar 30, 2012 8:22:00 GMT 10
I think it is important to realize as some have eluded that there wasn’t one hard and fast rule that lasted the entire span of the Ottoman Empire.
Conditions changed, practices changed. At first, despite the massacres undertaken by the Ottomans in Constantinople, some Greeks preferred Ottoman rule when compared to the Latins. Remember, the Byzantium empire had its troubles with the Crusades, and subsequent control of Greek lands by Western Europeans.
If you have read the Koran, its views on Christianity can seem contradictory, but the Ottomans accepted that by and large, under Islam, Christianity can be tolerated. What this meant in reality varied. Christians were subjected to higher wages, the policy of taking children, in court, the word of a Christian could never be taken over a Muslim. Many in Albania, Bosnia and strangely even Crete converted to Islam to take advantage of the benefits being a Muslim in the Ottoman Empire held.
I think as a general rule, you will find as the Ottoman Empire gradually became the sick man of Europe, conditions for the Greeks deteriorated. They were tough to begin with, they got worse. Do not forget however there were also those Greeks who prospered. The Merchant Class, the Phanariots and members of the Church who had position of power within the Ottoman Empire. But again, you cannot paint the entire situation with the same brush. Their were brave Greek priests who fought in the War of Independence. Who led their communities.
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Post by theoharis on Mar 30, 2012 8:46:45 GMT 10
^^^^^^^^ aek I agree again. Think about Saint Kosmas of Aetolia, or even Saint Theoharis whom I am named after (Theocharis is another translation.) The Church and priests preserved Greek culture and indeed were central to the Uprising. Here is a good article on the devsirme tax, I don't know about 1/3 but many, many Christian children from the conquered Balkan regions were taken... you can look at Greece's population compared to neighbours Turkey and Italy today... It is effectively the Greek Stolen Generations. www.ktersakian.com/2009/10/ottoman-slave-gathering-sytem-devsirme.html |
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Post by levendara on Mar 30, 2012 11:55:49 GMT 10
So freemasons saved Greece lol. Pick up a history book. Who do you think the Filiks Eteria were? 1 in 5 not 1 in 3 These practices are called the "tribute of children" (devshirmeh) (in Greek ðáéäïìÜæùìá paidomazoma, meaning "child gathering"), whereby every Christian community was required to give one son in five to be raised as a Muslim and enrolled in the corps of Janissaries, elite units of the Ottoman army. 1 in 5? Show me a credible source giving that figure? [/quote] Are you fucking serious? Its common knowledge, wikipedia (which is fucked at the best of times) even says this Do you need proof to know that Hitler was a cocksucker? NO |
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Post by mini on Mar 30, 2012 11:57:49 GMT 10
Link me to proof please
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Post by Blaze on Mar 30, 2012 12:10:14 GMT 10
Do you need proof to know I have a thought on this one statement. I don't want to get involved with the debate but on this point. Knowledge can only be built on proof. Without proof one is only relying on faith. I find it funny that these two statements are exactly the difference between religion and science. |
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Post by aek210 on Mar 30, 2012 12:32:16 GMT 10
Do you need proof to know I have a thought on this one statement. I don't want to get involved with the debate but on this point. Knowledge can only be built on proof. Without proof one is only relying on faith. I find it funny that these two statements are exactly the difference between religion and science. And there is your problem. The argument against Religion is an unwinnable one as religious people will always fall back on faith, while (as a graduate Scientist) I can tell you Science is "filling in the gaps" yes, however faces the ultimate problem that it argues itself into a corner. |
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Post by levendara on Mar 30, 2012 12:44:08 GMT 10
Blaze you moron nice of you to take my comment out of context and manipulate it to your advantage
"Do you need proof to know"
"Do you need proof to know that Hitler was a cocksucker? NO"
Nice try tough
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