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Post by aek210 on Mar 30, 2012 12:46:32 GMT 10
Blaze you moron nice of you to take my comment out of context and manipulate it to your advantage "Do you need proof to know" "Do you need proof to know that Hitler was a cocksucker? NO" Nice try tough Yeah Hitler and Rommel probably went at it hammer and tongs  |
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Post by levendara on Mar 30, 2012 12:48:10 GMT 10
victor-mobley.suite101.com/the-history-of-child-soldiers-a59619"The Ottoman Turks kidnapped young Christian boys and essentially brainwashed them into being loyal to the Sultan, the ruler of the Ottoman Empire. Hard-trained, these boys became the elite military unit in the Middle East, and perhaps Europe. They were called Janissaries. Interestingly, Islam prohibited the use of Muslim boys under the age of 15 in war, but made no such protections for Christians or Jews."
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Post by sweeper on Mar 30, 2012 13:05:49 GMT 10
If the Ottomans and Turks were so wonderful, why aren't we still with them ?
They would have been barbaric and life would have been shocking under them.
For all non muslims not just the Greeks.
There is nothing wrong with the Greek Orthodox Church.
I'm not saying that some of the people running the church aren't corrupt or untrustworthy.
The church and it's beliefs are what matters, not what people do and say that matters.
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Post by aek210 on Mar 30, 2012 13:20:54 GMT 10
If the Ottomans and Turks were so wonderful, why aren't we still with them ? They would have been barbaric and life would have been shocking under them. For all non muslims not just the Greeks. There is nothing wrong with the Greek Orthodox Church. I'm not saying that some of the people running the church aren't corrupt or untrustworthy. The church and it's beliefs are what matters, not what people do and say that matters. Yes agree. |
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Post by mini on Mar 30, 2012 13:30:32 GMT 10
victor-mobley.suite101.com/the-history-of-child-soldiers-a59619"The Ottoman Turks kidnapped young Christian boys and essentially brainwashed them into being loyal to the Sultan, the ruler of the Ottoman Empire. Hard-trained, these boys became the elite military unit in the Middle East, and perhaps Europe. They were called Janissaries. Interestingly, Islam prohibited the use of Muslim boys under the age of 15 in war, but made no such protections for Christians or Jews." I didn't deny kids were taken. At any given time there was 30,000 Jannisaries. Do the maths, millions of Christians subjectated, would one in every 5 kid represent only 30,000? What u provided was how kids were taken, not how many. U said 1 in 5, show the evidence. I'm studying history, in the middle of my thesis. I'd fail if I made claims without showing evidence. |
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Post by sweeper on Mar 30, 2012 17:02:51 GMT 10
Study the Armenian Genocide.
Lets see what they say about that.
The Turks like to "CHANGE THINGS" lets say and try to make their history against all their neighbors seem "more acceptable".
The Greeks were and are courageous in their stand against the Ottomans and the Turks to this day. For a small nation the Greeks punch way above their weight.
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Post by mini on Mar 30, 2012 19:41:37 GMT 10
Do you know the difference between the Ottoman Empire and the revolutionary Young Turks?
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Post by anothermp on Mar 30, 2012 20:12:38 GMT 10
The young Turks didn't hang Gerasimos V
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Post by theoharis on Mar 30, 2012 20:25:27 GMT 10
I understand what Mini is saying; This is a great discussion actually. There is a lot of professional debate on the treatment of Christians during this period. Last year I actually studied the Ottoman Empire in an elective history course at school, and all my life I have been reading about and learning the topic. There is a lot of opinion on the history. Yes many Sultans did believe in a stable, co-existing society. HOWEVER it is undeniable Mini that the devsirme tax was still in place, and that land taxes for Christians were also ridiculously high.
It was a huge Empire, so it couldn't anger the communities. It kept the people isolated in their towns, taxed their food, stole their children... only letting them have enough for the Christians to survive. The Ottomans also had superior weaponry, and were the first civilisation to embrace guns. The Janissaries were the greatest soldiers at the time. During this period, what could the Greeks actually do? The Church kept the language, religion, culture and education alive. Yes being a practising Christian was allowed, but as I said earlier there was a price to pay, and many many folded to Islam. The Church and priests were central to Greek success.
Let's not also forget the help of the interfering Great Powers. They all shared a common fear for the Ottomans, and the unlikely allies were mainly there to bring down the common enemy, however the whole Philhellenic idea of the time and European obsession with Greek culture helped a lot. The Russians, British and French supplied the Greeks not only in troops but with weaponry. The weaponry was key factor to Greek success. There is a book I read that has a very funny source, where the British expected to fight alongside these noble Greek warriors in the front line; instead, the Greeks would use hit and run guerrilla tactics, and not listen to the British orders because they thought they were idiots lining up in formation hahaha.
The Young Turks were insane, and were the result of the internal problems within the Ottoman Empire and the loss of previous territories prior to that generation .. Not just the Armenian and Greek Genocides, but Assyrian and Kurdish also... between 1850-1940 millions had been killed. There were many atrocities in that period, and not any of them recognised or acknowledged by the Turkish government today.
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Post by levendara on Mar 30, 2012 20:54:11 GMT 10
It is said that the NAZI's during WW2 were so impressed with what the Turks did in the years previous regarding the multiple genocides of Greeks/Armenians/Assyrians/Kurds, that Hitler and his people used the model and the same principles and tactics as the Turks
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Post by sweeper on Mar 30, 2012 21:29:33 GMT 10
mini,
Yes I do know the difference.
They are the same people either way you look at it.
Barbaric and ruthless.
There may be 100s of years between them, but they the same race.
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Post by mini on Mar 30, 2012 22:09:56 GMT 10
Fuck the Kurds. They helped the young Turks with the atrocities and genocides . Everything they cop from the Turks today they deserve
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Post by levendara on Mar 30, 2012 22:21:57 GMT 10
On the Kurds, they participated in the genocides (Kurds are fucked) but on the promise from the Turks that they would be given a homeland of their own, and as we know the Turks are still fucking with them
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Post by mini on Mar 30, 2012 22:23:07 GMT 10
And they deserve every bit of it!!!
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Post by levendara on Mar 30, 2012 22:25:08 GMT 10
They are a good counter balance for Greece to have them disrupting Turkey with their attacks and such
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