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Post by mini on May 10, 2012 10:58:07 GMT 10
So I can't handle people spouting claims without backing it up with evidence. Hence why I'm asking for evidence on how the KKE planned to give the Slavs northern Greece. As I said, this was junta-era propaganda. For so many years the Partisans in Greece have been called traitors and the like, and it's only been the last 10 or so years in Greece that the truth is coming out about their resistance to the occupiers of Greece, while the right-leaning 'resistance groups' ended up collaborating with the Nazis. I recommend you get your hands on this book and read it levendara: www.booktopia.com.au/the-kapetanios/prod9780853452751.html |
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Post by levendara on May 10, 2012 11:55:41 GMT 10
KKE for all the good they did in WW2 in fighting against the Italians, Grmans, Bulgarians, they then also decided to align themselves with Skopianoi to fight the Greek army/monarchists.
The Skopianoi also had another goal and that was to 'liberate' and annexe Macedonia to be part of a United Macedonia under Yugoslavia.
Nikos Zachariadis (KKE leader) expressed the KKE's strategy after the envisioned victory of the Democratic Army of Greece regarding what was then known as the "Macedonian Issue":
"The Macedonian people will acquire an independent, united state with a coequal position within the family of free peoples’ republics within the Balkans, within the family of Peoples’ Republics to which the Greek people will belong. The Macedonian people are today fighting for this independent united state with a coequal position and is helping the DSE with all its soul".
The policy of self-determination for Macedonia was reiterated during the 5th KKE Central Committee meeting held in January 1949, which declared that the "Macedonian people participating in the liberation struggle would find their full national re-establishment as they want giving their blood for this acquisition, Macedonian Communists should pay great attentions to foreign chauvinist and counteractive elements that want to break the unity between the Greek and Macedonian people. This will only serve the monarcho-fascists and British imperialism” This statement can be explaned due to the large number of Slavo-Macedonian fighters amongst the DSE fighters.
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Post by mini on May 10, 2012 12:58:59 GMT 10
Levendara.... Why did you conviniently leave the next paragraph out where it said: "In order for KKE to clear up its position on the "Macedonian subject", the 6th Congress of its Central Committee was called a few months later, during which was clearly stated that KKE was fighting for a free Greece and for a common future for Greeks and Macedonians under the same state.[13]"  |
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Post by levendara on May 10, 2012 13:13:00 GMT 10
Nevertheless  that was part of their platform for a while, Not to mention that "KKE was fighting for a free Greece and for a common future for Greeks and Macedonians under the same state" We all know this since Macedonians are Greeks, that is unless they're referring to Bulgarians and Greece living in the same state which is laughable and 1 of the many reasons the KKE have a low level of credibility in Greece and among Greeks |
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Post by mini on May 10, 2012 13:17:48 GMT 10
That position only lasted a few months and was abandoned. Now throughout all of history, they're branded as those who were going to give the blockheads and independent state and was quickly ratified. So for this, we take away all their sacrifice and hardwork they did in resisting and fighting for a free Greece, while the other so called resistant fighters eventually became Nazi collaborators to fight against the andartes.
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Post by aek210 on May 10, 2012 13:33:52 GMT 10
Ideologically communism is great in theory but its application practically is disastrous. People always wanted to cross from the communist East of Germany to the Democratic west not the other way around. Speak to People from Poland (of which there are many in Australia) and they will tell you of the scares communism left.
Not that capitalism is perfect either - capitalism has brought hundreds of millions out of poverty but empoverished many others.
I think all polticial ideologies have their weaknesses. The system that seems to work best is a social democracy - such as the ones in scandanavia.
However you need a national mindframe with a strong work ethic (the protestand work ethic in this case), a population that doesnt exploit welfare and an advanced economy.
Communists in Greece march against a system they theoretically supported - a welfare based EU giving handouts which actually served to make Greece uncompetitive (along with its mindset) have served to cripple the nation.
The GFC was caused by capitalist Greed - the debts were with banks. The recent Euro crisis was caused by left leaning ideologies which has seen governments go into debt.
So both systems have their pros and cons.
ps - yes no doubt mini Communists played an important role in the Greek resistance - they viewed Mussolini as a facist and therefore an enemy of Greece and their ideologies.
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Post by paoktzi on May 10, 2012 13:41:11 GMT 10
Capitalism only works for 5%
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Post by levendara on May 10, 2012 13:46:10 GMT 10
My first comment on this topic was praising the communists for fighting the Germans, Italians, Bulgarians during WW2 but their political wing KKE are backwards with some of the shit they've said and done over the years, hence the vast majority of Greeks will never take the stuff they say seriously
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Post by aek210 on May 10, 2012 14:26:03 GMT 10
Capitalism only works for 5% Communism works for less then that. In China capitalism (ironically under a communist govt, which has opened its doors to a - more or less - open market) has brought 30% of its population out of poverty. Communism makes economies uncompetitive, hurting the workers, the very people they claim to be helping. Remember the bread queues in Russia?. Advancements happen through competition and industry, things that are promoted in capitalism and democracy. Unfortunately also leaves room for greed and corruption. Then again corruption was rife in communist nations and still is. So more a comment on human nature as well as ideologies. I don't sit in any corner, I think some (not all) people that are proponents of these types of ideologies - whether it is capitalism or communism or whatever can often ignore the weaknesses they have. |
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Post by aek210 on May 10, 2012 14:33:30 GMT 10
Infact what is interesting (and the subject of a recently published book - ahhhh cant remember the name) is that for better or worse - Capitalism seems to be the most resilient system.
It has replaced feudalism, beaten facism (WW2), defeated communism (more or less) and now is in a battle with findamentalism - which many believes it will win as fundamentalism only ever appeals to the extreme.
It says something about the resilience of such a model. Maybe because it promotes individuality, and freedom of choice (well gives the allusion anyway) and has room for greed, something that is inbuilt in most humans.
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Post by levendara on May 10, 2012 14:58:13 GMT 10
aek210 you've made some great comments
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Post by mini on May 10, 2012 15:36:22 GMT 10
My first comment on this topic was praising the communists for fighting the Germans, Italians, Bulgarians during WW2 but their political wing KKE are backwards with some of the shit they've said and done over the years, hence the vast majority of Greeks will never take the stuff they say seriously 100% agree. But which clowns are more delusion, KKE or Xrisi Avgi |
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Post by sweeper on May 10, 2012 19:07:59 GMT 10
I wouldn't believe 1 single word that comes out of a skopiano mouth in regards to history.
I don't give them the time of day, they should be ashamed of themselves.
Privately, some of them have told me that they even don't believe they have a connection to Alexander The Great what so ever.
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that was part of their platform for a while,
